Jimmy Carter takes on the Christian Right [now with poll!] Email Print

"Blurring the line between church and state threatens civil liberties and privacy, says former President Jimmy Carter. That's the case he makes in his new book, Our Endangered Values: America's Moral Crisis, which draws on Carter's experiences as a president and a Christian."

The above is a blurb promoting an interview on Fresh Air,with Terry Gross, on the web site of National Public Radio.

In the book Carter writes:

Nowadays, the Washington scene is completely different, with almost every issue decided on a strictly partisan basis. Probing public debate on key legislative decisions is almost a thing of the past. Basic agreements are made between lobbyists and legislative leaders, often within closed party caucuses where rigid discipline is paramount. Even personal courtesies, which had been especially cherished in the U.S. Senate, are no longer considered to be sacrosanct. This deterioration in harmony, cooperation, and collegiality in the Congress is, at least in part, a result of the rise of fundamentalist tendencies and their religious and political impact.

Fortunately, this degree of rigidity and confrontation has not yet taken hold among the general public.

Carter is right. And all I know about the book is what I saw from the excerpt, and in listening to the Fresh Air interview just now.

But it will take some effort to learn how to engage in constructive conversation, and to learn with whom it is worth having such conversations, and with whom it is not.  I am not going to try to lay out a plan in this short essay. But rather to stake out the ground that it is not only possible, but necessary.

That's why is wrong to write off all conservative Christians as beyond all conversation and all reason. I find the routine derisive language used by many against those with whom they disagree on matters of religion incompatible with the values of tolerance and equality to which progressives have historically been all about. It borders on religious bigotry -- and all too often falls well over the line. Suffice to say that being routinely offensive to large numbers of people because of political disagreements with some, is not smart politics.

Jimmy Carter is a conservative Democrat. He is also an evangelical Christian. He is proud of his faith. It is integral to who he is.  He is also a hero of civil and human rights. He fiercly supports the separation of church and state. And he opposes the fundamentalist enforcers who have taken over the Southern Baptist Convention. In fact he left the SBC out of principle. Among other things, he opposes the SBC insistence on the subordination of women, and the banning of women from positions of leadership in the denomination.

Chip Berlet, Senior Analyst at Political Research Associates has been a leader among progressives in articulating why the demonization of evangelicals and religious conservatives is politically ineffective, at best; stupidly counterproductive at worst.

"Most Christian evangelicals," he wrote at Talk to Action recently,  "are not part of the Christian Right. I know from talking with evangelicals and fundamentalists across the country that they are offended by the rhetoric from some liberal and Democratic Party leaders who do not seem to be able to talk about religion without chewing on their foot.

I have this fantasy about kidnapping a busload of liberal inside-the-beltway pundits and driving them to some town in Middle America where they have to learn how to talk to voters who think that going to a church, or synagogue, or mosque or other place of worship is a normal part of life. The pundits won’t be given a ticket back to Dupont Circle until they don’t flinch when someone says words like “faith,” “prayer,” or “blessing.”

I suspect some will have to walk back to the Potomac."


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Is Religious Tolerance a Progressive Value?
yes 72%
yes, except for fundies 16%
yes, except for papists 0%
yes, except for Jews 0%
yes, except for atheists and agnostics 0%
yes, except for witches and pagans 0%
yes, except for Muslims 0%
yes, except for theocrats 11%
yes, except for Carter, Berlet, and you 0%
no 0%

Votes: 18
Results | Other Polls
< Executive Order 12958: Rove should lose clearance | CBS Demolishes Bush >
because I'm an atheist. Heh.

Seriously, though, I have nothing but respect for Jimmy Carter and his like. That's a view of Christianity that I'm quite comfortable with.

by mcjoan on 11/03/2005 12:22:29 AM EST

But it will take some effort to learn how to engage in constructive conversation, and to learn with whom it is worth having such conversations, and with whom it is not.

I'd rather clean toilets, but bring it on.

All it takes to fly is to hurl yourself at the ground... and miss. (Douglas Adams)

by scoophound on 11/03/2005 06:09:17 AM EST

I am often at a loss about how to speak about fundamentalists. I want to be as polite and open-minded as possible. But then I check out what Focus on the Family's website is saying (and I have spent a LOT of time there trying to understand them). And so much of it seems full of lies and distortions. Some of them (Focus and others) gratuitously belittle liberals as much as the some idiot liberal pundits belittle them.

I have this fantasy about kidnapping a busload of liberal inside-the-beltway pundits and driving them to some town in Middle America where they have to learn how to talk to voters who think that going to a church, or synagogue, or mosque or other place of worship is a normal part of life.

I'd agree with that, but add that I'd like a bunch of the faithful from Middle America forced to talk to liberals. We are not all elitist snobs, as we are often being portrayed as being. We have moral values, we are annoyed with a lot of the junk on television, etc.

It's hard not to get angry at all of this. I'm open to dialogue. Are THEY?

I worry about one thing: some rigidity and confrontation is STARTING to creep into general public. I'm sure liberals are at fault in cases, but it's not just liberals. The morning after the last election, there were new bright yellow lawn signs in front of the local church. They said, "God is still speaking." It was like a slap in the face. I later say similar lawn signs (and large banners) at other area churches (in the Lehigh Valley, PA). They were up for a month or more.

by astraea on 11/03/2005 11:02:12 AM EST

I agree that conversation is a two way street. I think the point that Carter, Berlet and I are trying to make, is that most evangelicals do not necessarily agree with the propaganda on the Focus on the Family web site. We have certainly  political and other battles to fight with FOF. Part of the battle is contending for some of the same people they are trying to reach. Figuring out how to do that is part of what it means to live in America these days. If we don't want FOF to win, that is.

As for the God is Still Speaking stuff, could it have been materials from the multimillion dollar campaign by the United Church of Christ, a liberal protestant denomination? It's called "God is Still Speaking." The campaign seeks to welcome all people, regardless of race or sexual orientation among other things.

I suppose its possible that fundamentalist churches put up signs that said the same thing.  

by Frederick Clarkson on 11/03/2005 01:09:23 PM EST

It was the UCC campaign (checked the link). Perhaps I completely misinterpeted the signs.

by astraea on 11/03/2005 02:33:35 PM EST

And a button for my coat (despite the moniker, I teach Sunday School at a UCC church).

The idea behind the signs is one that I encourage, and one I've taught the kids in my class for years -- historic figures did not have privileged information when it comes to God.  This isn't fantasyland, where "great old ones" knew things we poor modern humans can never grasp.  We can be just as close to God as Paul, or Moses, or David.  And the communication we share with God is no less valuable.  Just because some guy with a beard wrote down a rule three thousand years ago, doesn't mean it's set in stone.  

Otherwise, we'd be killing people for planting two kinds of crops in the same field, not to mention supporting slavery.  Sure, we should look to the past for instruction (though my teenagers often think the whole sending someone off to die just so you can sleep with their wife thing somewhat deflates the value of David as moral role model), but we should also keep an ear open for that still, small voice.

by Devilstower on 11/03/2005 03:33:33 PM EST

Did the signs have anything to do with the election? They showed up (around here anyway) immediately after it. At the time I couldn't imagine they meant anything other than "We Won."

I like what you say they are about. I'm not religious, but religion in all forms fascinates me. My father taught philosophy and comparative religions.

by astraea on 11/03/2005 05:39:48 PM EST

were part of a huge advertising and marketing campaign the UCC was rolling out that fall, unrealted to the elections.  They had a TV spot that was rejected by the networks, leading to a lot of outcry and news coverage to die for;-)

I personally wrote about on my blog and at Big Orange at the time.

The UCC is currently trying to get the last big chunk of cash for a new round of ads for cable and local TV markets, among other things.

by Frederick Clarkson on 11/03/2005 08:30:38 PM EST

I happened to be listening yesterday and caught most this interview.

Carter was downright inspirational.

A genuine breath of "Fresh Air," after all the hot air blowing these days.

Taxes shall be levied according to ability to pay. That is the only American principle. FDR

by btyarbro on 11/03/2005 11:20:54 AM EST

Talk about total integrity and honor.  It almost made me cry to see how far we've fallen.

by Anglico on 11/03/2005 01:39:11 PM EST

I know from talking with evangelicals and fundamentalists across the country that they are offended by the rhetoric from some liberal and Democratic Party leaders who do not seem to be able to talk about religion without chewing on their foot.

It's a two way street.  I am offended by the more rabid fundamentalists who condemn liberals and humanists as immoral or evil.  The fundamental problem, no pun intended, is that the conversation is increasingly dominated by the most extreme elements on each side.  I remember a time when the terms of conversation were defined by more moderate voices and extreme views were discounted by both sides; when the goal was consensus rather than winning at any cost.  No longer.  What used to be a conversation among friends has become a shouting match between enemies.  I think the change has been driven primarily by those on the religious Right, but they did not and cannot do it by themselves.  There is plenty of blame to go around.

There's a cancer growing on the presidency.

by ignorant bystander on 11/03/2005 06:03:32 PM EST

Fred, I think you're overstating your case. Sure, some liberals dismiss or disparage fundamentalists. But when, and where? On national TV news shows? On the floor of the Senate? I've never seen it...so isn't the complaint from the Christian right largely just about anecdotal evidence, and suspicions that leftists have no time for their religious beliefs? And we know how accurate are the anecdotes passed around among fundamentalists. Often they're made up, or some tiny event is blown up and distorted into something supposedly monstrous. I believe much of the complaining that emanates from those quarters is based upon the flimsiest of evidence. In short, many fundamentalists like to believe they're persecuted.

More often, the opposite is true: When they have the power, they too often use it to bear down upon others outside their group. How many atheists are there in the Senate? The opinion polls have said the same thing for years: The great majority of Americans would never vote for an atheist.

There's no reason why leftists have to respond to those kinds of religious beliefs. I see little profit in mocking them...if that's what you're driving at. But I'm not about to pretend that those beliefs are worthy of discussion just because large numbers of people hold them. Millions believe that the Bible is the literal word of God (and many of those think God composed it in English). That strikes as absurd and hardly worth discussing. If fundamentalists want to discuss their religious views amongst themselves, that's their business.

The main problem, as I see it, is not that evangelical fundamentalists hold many untenable religious views, but simply that they are determined to push those views upon the rest of us. One of the main reason that liberals do tend to dismiss evangelical fundamentalists is that they meddle, and their meddling is illiberal.

Take their position on abortion. Many of them want to outlaw it, throw people in jail for having an abortion. The reason, however they slice it in public, is that they believe abortion conflicts with (their version of) Christianity. They base their position on scriptures. That's ok if they want to live by these rules, but why should the rest of us be forced to conform to their religious views? I just don't see that there is a middle ground, between my view that people should be left alone to live their lives as they see fit, and the fundies' view that they should be allowed to dictate to others.

I know that they wouldn't agree to the outlines of the debate as I've just described it, but that is part of the problem. They would argue that there are natural truths and life begins at blah blah blah. In other words, we can't very well debate issues intelligently with people who cannot allow themselves to face up to facts and to admit to what they are attempting to do, but instead say one thing in private or in church, and something very different for public consumption (as e.g. 'creationism' among friends, but 'intelligent design' in public).

I'd like to think that Americans can learn to get along better, but it will not be on terms of the religious right's choosing. And they seem to think it is their agenda, or no agenda. I think they are the problem. If I were obliged to sit down and talk with them, I think I'd say one very simple thing: Practice humility.

by smintheus on 11/03/2005 11:55:43 PM EST

I agree with you that the Christian right has been falsley claiming persecution for a long time. It is one dimension of the basic frame that the CR has used for three decades -- that Christianity is under assault from a conspiracy of secular humanism (the terms vary) and that religious expression is being stifled. This theme has been internalized and spouted by people like Stephen Carter and Jim Wallis. Neither of whom presents any evidence for thier position. I spent half a chapter of my book dissecting Carter's book The Culture of Disbelief, and noting that we can thank Bill Clinton for making it a best seller.

My point is different. It is one that I have written about before and will return to again. There are many people whose ignorance about various religious groups is not only profound, but it is enforced. For a generation, the national democratic party and alligned interest groups fell under the sway of inside the beltway consultants whose big idea was to continually revise labels to as "messages" to "counter" the religious right.  

Whenever you hear liberal leaders using phrases like "radical religious extremists" that is where it all comes from. If you work in certain places, if you say anthing other than the approved message, you are deemed "off message."  Not a good career move. You are always safe disparaging the "extremists."

So you can go to public and private meetings in which the only word used to describe many people is "extremists." You'd be amazed how many people fall under the category of "extremist." It's everyone from Harriet Miers to the Aryan Nations. How can one have a coherent conversation when the only word people will use is extremist? If people in the room don't know the difference between an evangelical and a fundamentalist? That's just for starters. I've been there. And recently. It's shocking.

One could say, hey get 'em a thesaurus, but alas, the problem of ignorance is not solved by terminology alone.

Chip Berlet and I have been talking about these things for years. And have gone more forcefully public with our concerns in the past year.

I did not seek to make what you call a "case" in this particular post.

But if you think there might be anything at all to my point consider for a moment that not all evangelicals are fundamentalists. And not all fundamentalits are even political. If one understands and accepts this one, broad distinction among many that could be made, you will recognize that a lot of vast and unsupportable  generalizations are made every single day by often otherwise thoughtful people.

Anyway, one DC group that is headed in a different direction in their use of language is DefCon. They listened. You will rarely see the word extremist used in thier materials. You will rarely see the word fundamentalist used as an epithet instead of a term that describes certain kinds of religious believers.

I agree with you that there is no reason to go forward on terms of the religious right's choosing. My challenge to this and all concerned communities is to take seriously the idea that the language of demonization has not worked. It is one of the failed aspects of liberal leadership in America. If we are going to compete with the religious right for the hearts and minds of fellow Ameicans, we can't do it with smug, inside the beltway slogans; and it will require becoming more conversant with and respectful of the nature of religious diveristy in America.

We will be adressing these issues in more detail and discussing them often, when we launch Talk to Action in a few weeks.

You can count on us to continue to raise these matters. We are tired of the Democrats and liberals making bad tactical and strategic choices in this regard.

If anything, I have understated the situation.

by Frederick Clarkson on 11/04/2005 02:28:59 AM EST

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