Political Cortex: Brain Food for the Body Politic

BLITZER: I want you to listen to what President Bush said today on the Saddam Hussein trial. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: He should be on trial. I think his trial is -- is indicative of the change that has taken place in the Iraqi society. In the old days, if Saddam and his cronies didn't like you, you didn't get a trial, you were just put to death or tortured.

Today, there is a system, a judicial system in place that'll give Saddam Hussein a chance to make his case in court.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: What do you think about what the president said?

CLARK: Well, you know, the president organized the court. The court's a creation of Paul Bremer and the people who were working for him. They've been pushing for this all the time. The question is whether they want a fast trial and a quick execution.

And if they do, they are just going to tear this country and the Arab and the Muslim world apart. You don't get over injustice quickly, and particularly something that is -- if this trial doesn't appear to be fair, you have to hope it's fair in fact. But if it doesn't appear to be fair, it's going to create irreconcilable division, anger, violence and war.

BLITZER: Do you think he should be standing before this court as a defendant for the crimes he has committed?

CLARK: Well, wait a minute, you've already concluded he's committed the crime. I believe in the presumption of innocence. Not because it's a legal rule, but because it keeps you open-minded, you know. If you have already decided the case, why try anyway? Let's keep open minds and wait until we hear the facts. You don't know. You haven't seen what he's done. You just heard a lot of stuff.

BLITZER: Well, we've heard a lot of...

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: ... evidence over the years that he ordered the poison gassing of Kurds in the north. He used poison gas and chemical weapons against Iranians, and that he slaughtered a lot of his own citizens.

CLARK: Yes, you saw the evidence or you read it in the newspaper, you heard it on CNN. What are you trying to tell me? What do you really know about the use of poison gas? Have you seen the...

BLITZER: All of the above.

CLARK: Have you seen "The New York Times" op-ed piece by -- yes, but you haven't seen the evidence. But you know that. If you are going to presume his guilt, then you don't care about a trial. You say, go ahead and first the punishment and then the trial. Join in with Alice in wonderland. I believe in the presumption of innocence. I think everything in life depends on keeping open minds.

BLITZER: Well, I think you're right. He certainly deserves...

CLARK: I also believe in a fair trial.

BLITZER: He certainly deserves a fair trial. But over the years, don't you think Saddam Hussein...

CLARK: He more than deserves a fair trial. We need a fair trial. We need it more than he does.

BLITZER: Of course -- everyone needs a fair trial, including Saddam Hussein. But don't you believe in your heart that over the years he's committed...

CLARK: This trial is unique.

BLITZER: I was going to say, don't you believe that he has committed....

CLARK: This trial...

BLITZER: ... that he has ordered atrocities? Do you believe he has?

CLARK: Look, I've just told you, I believe in the presumption of innocence. I believe in keeping an open mind. I don't prejudge people. If you are going to prejudge people, just forget fairness, just forget reconciliation. You know, how do you know?

You know, the head CIA person that went up and investigated the claims about gas in Halabja say that the Iraqis did not do it. That's what he said. I don't know if he's right. I don't know if the others are right. I know this: He's been systemically demonized. It's one of the most dangerous things that happens in life. You can't consider the possibility that he might be a human being.

But if you want a fair trial, you better presume innocence, because you are not going to have a fair trial otherwise. You are not going to have one unless you protect the defense counsel. You're not going to have one unless you determine whether this court is legal, whether these judges are impartial, whether the court itself is independent of outside pressures saying here's what you do, you do what we say.

And those are essential things to a fair trial. And it will be very important to the future of this area. You are dealing with historic truth. This case is about history. You distort history when you have an unfair trial. It's public justice. Is it possible to have -- is it possible to have justice of a public figure? And it's about peace more than anything else, because if you don't have a fair trial, you are going to have more violence.

BLITZER: Well, Ramsey Clark, be careful over there. Thanks very much for joining us. We appreciate it.

CLARK: OK. Thank you.